Perezida Kagame yagarutse ku mubano w’u Rwanda n’u Bufaransa, asobanura ko wagiye uhinduka mu buryo bwiza kandi bugaragara nubwo hakiri ibyo gukosora nyuma y’amateka ashaririye.

Yabigarutseho mu kiganiro cyihariye yagiranye na Le Figaro, Ikinyamakuru cyo mu Bufaransa. Cyibanze ku ngingo zijyanye no Kwibuka ku nshuro ya 30 Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi, ndetse kigaruka ku bibazo by’umutekano muke mu Burasirazuba bwa Congo n’ibindi.

Imyaka 30 irashize Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi ibaye, u Bufaransa bushinjwa kuyigiramo uruhare. Ubu umubano hagati y’u Rwanda n’u Bufaransa wifashe ute?

Icya mbere ni ukwemera ko mu myaka yashize umubano utari wifashe neza. Uko iminsi yagiye ishira, wagiye umera neza ndetse kuri ubu navuga ko uhagaze neza cyane.

U Bufaransa bwumva neza uko Jenoside yatangiye n’uko yagenze. Ibintu byatangiye guhinduka guhera ku gihe cya Nicolas Sarkozy, kuri ubu Emmanuel Macron ari mu nzira nziza. Hari ibintu byinshi bisigaye byo gukosora ariko hari ibiri gukorwa.

Mwaba mutarishimiye kuba Perezida Emmanuel Macron atazaba ari kumwe namwe tariki 7 Mata mu kwibuka Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi ku nshuro ya 30?

Nakwifuje ko twaba turi kumwe ariko siko bizaba bimeze. Ibintu njye mbifata uko biri. Ni we uzamenya niba bizashoboka kuba ari kumwe natwe cyangwa se niba bidashoboka.

Musobanura mute imyitwarire yo kwamagana u Bufaransa igenda ifata indi ntera muri Afurika?

U Bufaransa n’Abafaransa nibo bakwiriye kurazwa ishinga n’icyo kibazo. Bakwiriye gusubiza amaso inyuma kugira ngo basobanukirwe neza nk’uko twabigenje aha ku bijyanye na Jenoside.

Hatabayeho uko kwisuzuma, ntabwo twakwizera ko ibintu bizagenda neza. Icyakora, ibihugu bya Afurika bibangamiwe n’uko kuzamba k’umubano nabyo bigomba kubigiramo uruhare. Ni byiza rimwe na rimwe kwisuzuma ubwawe, buri gihe ntiwumve ko amakosa ari ay’abandi gusa.

Niba uyu munsi babonye ko bafashwe nabi, kuki bemeye ko bimara iki gihe cyose? Niba hari ibyo utemera, ugomba kubivuga nk’uko bigenda iyo uri kuganira. Akenshi iyo hariho kutumvikana, ntabwo amakosa aba ari ay’uruhande rumwe gusa. Sintekereza ko u Bufaransa aribwo bwonyine nyirabayazana wo kwinubirwa muri Afurika.

Imyaka 30 irashize Jenoside ibaye igahitana abasaga miliyoni mu minsi ijana. Mubona mwarabonye ubutabera?

Mu buryo runaka twavuga ngo ‘Yego’. Ahandi tukavuga ko byashobokaga ko birenga uko bimeze. Icyakora kuba u Rwanda rutekanye , ntabwo wavuga ko ari ukubera ubutabera gusa, harimo n’uruhare rw’ibyemezo bya politiki byaherekeje gahunda yo kubabarira yashyizweho. Mu kwirinda ko ubwicanyi buhorerwa ubundi, twakuyeho igihano cy’urupfu.

Ni icyemezo cyafashwe abarokotse Jenoside batacyishimiye ariko cyari ngombwa kugira ngo ubumwe n’ubwiyunge bwihute. Icyari kigambiriwe ni ukubyihutisha dukoresheje kubwizanya ukuri.

Nakongeraho ko nubwo ibihugu byinshi by’amahanga byadufashije mu buryo bw’inkunga, mu bijyanye n’ubutabera babigenzemo gahoro cyane. Abajenosideri bihishe mu Bufaransa, u Bubiligi, Canada n’ahandi nta nkomyi. Nibwira ko byashobokaga kubikora kare.

Kuri ubu inzira y’ubumwe n’ubwiyunge twavuga ko igana aheza?

Yego rwose. Birumvikana ntabwo ubwicanyi nka buriya ibyabwo byarangira gutyo gusa, ariko ushyize ku ijanisha, ndibwira ko kugeza ubu akazi kakozwe ku kigero cya 80%. Na 20% gasigaye ni inzira y’ubwiyunge ikomeza. Amateka twanyuzemo yaduciyemo ibice ariko ntabwo ariwo murage wacu.

Mu myaka ya 2000 nibwo twatangiye politiki yo kwishyira hamwe, Umunyarwanda wese akaba ku isonga y’iterambere ry’igihugu. Buri wese agomba kubazwa ibyo akora kugeza no ku nzego nkuru z’igihugu. Buri wese arabibazwa iyo intego yihaye atazigezeho.

Ubukungu bw’u Rwanda bumaze igihe buzamuka ku kigero kiri hejuru ya 7%, twavuga u Rwanda nka kimwe mu bicumbi by’ubukungu bwa Afurika…

Tugerageza guha agaciro ubwiza bw’igihugu cyacu kugira ngo duteze imbere ubukerarugendo, kuko buri ku isonga y’iterambere. Ubuhinzi n’ikoranabuhanga nabyo biri ku isonga. Nta banga ririmo, kugira ngo tureshye abashoramari nta kindi twagombaga gukora atari ugushaka umutekano.

Haba hari inkunga musubiza inyuma z’abanyamahanga? Tuvuge nk’izo mu Burusiya?

Twe twakira buri mufatanyabikorwa wese ugamije kudufasha gutera imbere. Icyo tumusaba ni kimwe gusa: Kubahiriza amategeko yacu no kutaduha aye mategeko. Ni ikintu cy’ingenzi.

Mwasubiza iki ababashinja kuyoboza igitugu?

Ni uburenganzira bwabo, icyakora sinzi icyo bashingiraho banyita gutyo. Sinshobora gusaba imbabazi z’icyo ndicyo cyangwa se icyo nteganya gukorera igihugu cyanjye. Nta na rimwe nigeze ntekereza ko umunsi umwe nzaba ndi hano nka Perezida, byaje nk’impanuka. Ndababwiza ukuri, hari ibintu utagiramo uruhare, ibintu utashobora kugena uko bigenda ariko uko byamera kose bikaba, ni uko ndi hano.

Mugiye kwiyamamaza mu matora ya Perezida azaba muri Nyakanga, muri manda yavuye ku myaka irindwi ikajya kuri itanu. Twavuga ko muzakomeza kugeza mu 2034?

Ishyaka ryanjye niryo rizafata umwanzuro niba nziyamamaza mu matora yo muri Nyakanga. Ku by’ahazaza byo ntabwo mbizi. N’iyo naba nshaka kugeza icyo gihe, sinjye wo kubifataho umwanzuro njye nyine. Iby’ahazaza sinjye ubigena.

Umubano wanyu na Repubulika Iharanira Demokarasi ya Congo warazambye bitarabaho. Intambara irashoboka?

Ni amakimbirane amaze igihe kandi aho kubogoza, nibwira ko ari ngombwa gushaka ibisubizo. Kugira ngo ubyumve neza, ni ngombwa kujya mu mizi. Ni amateka maremare. Birenga no mu gihe cy’ubukoloni.

RDC, Uganda ndetse n’u Rwanda, buri kimwe gifite abaturage b’ibindi bibiri bisigaye bahageze kera cyane. Mu Burasirazuba bwa Congo ho baratsembwe nk’aho atari iwabo.

Ni ahantu bisanze ku bw’imipaka yaciwe. Mu karere, hari izindi ngero nk’izo nyamara zitateje ibibazo. Urugero mu gice cy’Amajyepfo ashyira uburengerazuba bwa Uganda, bimeze neza kuko ikibazo cyakemuwe neza. Nyamara muri Congo abo baturage baratsembwa ku manywa y’ihangu.

Byose biterwa n’ikibazo gikomeye cy’imiyoborere i Kinshasa. Abayobozi ba Congo ntibitaye ku gihugu cyabo. Igisubizo cyo guhagarika ubugizi bwa nabi mu Burasirazuba bwa Congo, kiri mu biganza bya Perezida Félix Tshisekedi wenyine.

Tshisekedi agaragaza ko mufite uruhare runini ku mvano y’ibibazo ashingiye ku bufasha muha umutwe wa M23, umutwe wiganjemo Abatutsi, nka bamwe bakorewe Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi mu Rwanda mu 1994…

Ariko abantu bo muri M23, ni abaturage bafite ubwenegihugu bwa Congo, muri make icyo ni ikibazo kireba Congo. Ku bindeba, nasaba Félix Tshisekedi gushyira iherezo ku bwicanyi bukorwa na FDLR, umutwe ugizwe ahanini n’intagondwa z’Abahutu, zagize uruhare muri Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi, bagahungira muri RDC.

Ni ngombwa ko imvugo zihembera urwango zituruka hakurya y’imipaka zihagarara, hamwe n’ibikorwa byo gutwika abantu bikorerwa mu muhanda. Ni ibikorwa biri kubera muri Afurika yo hagati Isi yose ireba.

Bivuze ko muri guhamagara Umuryango Mpuzamahanga?

Ingabo ziri mu butumwa bwa Loni bwahawe izina rya Monusco, zimaze imyaka irenga 25 hariya, ariko se umusaruro wabaye uwuhe? Ugutsindwa kw’izi ngabo, uyu munsi ubutumwa bwazo bugeze ku musozo mu gihe bwatwaye miliyari 35 z’amadolari. Ikindi kintu gituma ibintu birushaho kugorana, ni imiterere ya politiki y’akarere muri iki gihe.

Ibihugu bikize bifite inyungu muri RDC. Ibyo nta kibazo njye mbifiteho. Bakurikiye amabuye y’agaciro: Cobalt, Coltan…kugira ngo RDC itajya mu biganza by’u Burusiya, u Bushinwa n’ibindi ni nk’aho byabaye ngombwa ko bigirira impuhwe RDC. Ibyo bihugu bikomeye bishobora kugira u Rwanda igitambo.

Ku bijyanye n’amasezerano n’u Bwongereza, ni iki mwabusabye nk’ingurane kugira ngo mwakire abimukira babugezemo mu buryo bunyuranyije n’amategeko?

Inkomoko y’ibi ihera mu myaka ishize, ubwo nari Umuyobozi w’Umuryango wa Afurika yunze Ubumwe mu 2018. Byari ngombwa ko hashakwa igisubizo mu gukemura ikibazo cy’abimukira bapfiraga mu nyanja ya méditerranée, ibintu byakomeje gufata indi ntera kuva ku ihirikwa rya Kadhafi n’intambara yo muri Libya.

Igitekerezo cyari ugutanga uburyo bw’inzira eshatu aho abimukira bakirwa mu Rwanda, nyuma bakazoherezwa mu bindi bihugu nk’ibyo mu Burayi bwa ruguru, Canada na Leta Zunze Ubumwe za Amerika. Indi nzira yari ugufasha abo bimukira gusubira mu bihugu byabo by’inkomoko, hanyuma iya gatatu yari uko baguma hamwe natwe ariko mu gihe cyose bemera imibereho yacu.

Kuva icyo gihe, ibihugu byinshi bifite ibibazo bijyanye n’abimukira. Ariko ku bijyanye n’u Bwongereza, dusa n’abagiye mu mizi. Ibijyanye n’ingurane? Mu bijyanye n’ubufasha bugamije iterambere, u Bwongereza buradufasha kuva mu 1994. Ayo masezerano nagerwaho, kabone nubwo hari abayitambika mu Bwongereza, bikarangira ashyizwe mu bikorwa, iyo nkunga iziyongera hagamijwe kwita ku bimukira.