Ku banyeshuri n’ababyeyi bafite abana bafite imyaka iri hejuru y’itatu ushatse wavuga ko ‘ubunani’ bwabo bwageze kuko umwaka mushya w’amashuri watangiye! Uyu mwaka wavuzwemo byinshi birimo gukopera ibizamini bya Leta no gutanga amahirwe yo kubisubiramo, impinduka zirimo guhagurukira imyitwarire y’abanyeshuri n’abarezi ku buryo uzajya ahuhamo bikagaragara ko yasomye kuri manyinya, urwana cyangwa ukora ibitemewe ashobora kwirukanwa.

Uyu mwaka utangiye abarenga 81 barimo abarimu, abayobozi mu nzego z’ibanze bashinzwe uburezi mu turere tumwe bari mu maboko y’ubutabera kubera gukopeza abana ibizamini bya Leta.

Iyi ngingo kimwe n’izindi zijyanye n’ireme ry’uburezi rishishikaje benshi, Minisitiri w’Uburezi, Joseph Nsengimana yazigarutseho birambuye mu kiganiro yagiranye na IGIHE. Yashimangiye ko ururimi rw’Icyongereza ku barimu ari ngombwa ko barumenya kuko uwo ruzananira mu myaka ibiri bahawe ashobora kuzatakaza akazi.

IGIHE: Mu ntego mwinjiranye muri MINEDUC, ni izihe mwabashije kugeraho?

Minisiti Nsengimana Joseph: Ntangira aka akazi hari ibyari byaragezweho nko kugira ngo abana bashobore kwitabira amashuri ariko hari n’ibindi twagiye duhindura muri iyi myaka ibiri tumaze, ni ukugenda rero buri wese yubakira aho undi yari agejeje, turagenda twubaka.

Iyo urebye urugendo rw’uburezi, hari iyo ntego yo kuvuga ngo umwana wese ashobore kugera mu ishuri, ariko njye nza muri aka kazi ndetse n’abari bambanjirije, twari ukugira ngo twubakire kuri iyo ntego yo kujya mu mashuri kugira ngo tuzamure ireme ry’uburezi. Ireme ry’uburezi ni cyo kintu njyewe niyemeje ko ntatangaho umusaruro ariko nanone si njye njyenyine, mba nkorana n’abandi.

Aho hari ibintu byinshi bigomba guhinduka kugira ngo iryo reme ry’uburezi rigerwego. Icya mbere nko kugira ngo tujye tureba ibikorerwa mu mashuri, impinduka zijyanye n’ibintu bigaragara. Nko kureba ibyigishwa mu myaka ya mbere y’amashuri abanza, mu wa mbere, uwa kabiri n’uwa gatatu. Dutangiye mu myaka ibiri ishize wasangaga ibintu byigishwa bidahuye n’umwanya wo kwigisha, turabihindura kugira ngo bihure n’ayo masaha. Ibyo rero bigatuma bizamura ireme ry’uburezi muri icyo cyiciro.

Icyo cyiciro ni cyo gikomeye kuko ni rwo rufatiro twubakiraho ibindi byose byo kwiga. Iyo tunarebye kubera gahunda nzamurabushobozi ubu abana basibira baragabanyutse aho twari turi kuri 30% mu mwaka wa mbere , uwa kabiri n’uwa gatatu ubu byamanutseho 10%.

Icyo twifuza ni uko turushaho kunoza ibyigwa n’uburyo byigishwa kugira ngo n’abo 20% bagabanyuke. Ikindi hari combinations, ugasanga abana badafite umusingi bakubakiraho bagiye muri kaminuza. Ibyo na byo twarabihinduye dushyiraho ‘Learning Pathways’, ubu umunyeshuri azajya arangiza amashuri yisumbuye afite aho ahera kugira ngo yige kaminuza cyangwa se akomeze akazi….uyu ni umwaka wa kabiri, umwaga gatatu ni umwaka utaha ni bwo aba mbere bazaba barangije icyo gihe tuzabona umusaruro byatanze batangiye kujya muri kaminuza cyangwa batangiye akazi.

Ikindi kwari ukugira ngo uburyo dutangaza amanota bibe ari ibintu bisobanutse, abantu bashobore kuyabona, bayumve bamenye niba batsinze, niba batsinzwe kandi tuzamure uburyo umwana abona 50% kugira ngo ashobore kuba yatsinze.

Ikibazo cy’ubucucike mu mashuri muhangana na cyo mute ko kibangamira iterambere ry’ireme ry’uburezi?

Iyo urebye ikibazo cy’abana benshi mu mashuri, igisubizo kuri ibyo ni ukubaka ibyumba by’amashuri. Hagati ya 2017 na 2024 Leta yubatse ibyumba by’amashuri 27500. Ibyo byarafashije kugira ngo bigabanye ubucucike bwari buhari ariko ntabwo bwashize. Uko ubushobozi bubonetse turongera tukubaka ibyuma by’amashuri. Nta kindi gisubizo ni ukubaka ibyumba by’amashuri kuko nta mwana w’Umunyarwanda tuzavuga ngo oya wowe genda imyanya yarashize kuko turashaka ko bose biga.

Ibyo rero bikazatwara igihe kuko amikoro ni make ariko uko abonetse tugenda twubaka…ni cyo gisubizo. Kuko kugira abana benshi mu ishuri ku ruhande rumwe ni byiza kuko abana baba bagiye ku ishuri, ariko ahandi kugira abana benshi mu ishuri bituma batiga neza. Uko bishobotse ibyumba by’amashuri bindi bikaboneka, tugenda tugabanya…icyo tubikoraho ni ukongera abarimu. Hari nk’ahantu twagiye tubona hari abana barenze 60 mu cyumba cy’ishuri icyo gihe icyo twagiye dukora mu mashuri y’ibanze ya [uwa mbere, uwa kabiri n’uwa gatatu] tugashyiramo abarimu babiri. Hari ho twagiye dushyira abarimu babiri kuko nta cyumba kibonetse ariko kuko bakiri benshi tukavuga ngo reka dushyiremo abarimu babiri, afatanye na mugenzi we.

Abarimu bumva ururimi rw’Icyongereza rwigishwamo ni bake. Ibi bizakemuka bite?

Ni byo ururimi rw’Icyongereza ni rwo dukoresha mu kwigisha, rero bikaba ari ngombwa kugira ngo abarimu ubumenyi bwabo mu Cyongereza buzamuke. Guhera umwaka ushize twashyizeho gahunda yo kuzamura ubumenyi bwabo mu Cyongereza buzamuke kuko twasanze abarimu benshi batari ku rugero bagomba kuba bariho. Iyo gahunda rero ikaba ari iy’imyaka ibiri kugira ngo abarimu bagere kuri rwa rugero twifuza.

Abarimu baratangiye ndetse hari abamaze gutera imbere, abayikomeje, ndetse mu mwaka w’amashuri uyu utangiye uzajya gusoza abarimu benshi bamaze kuzamura ubumenyi mu Cyongereza kugera kuri cya cyiciro twifuza, abandi cyane cyane abashya barangije za TTC rwa rugero twifuza bagomba kuba barufite mbere y’uko barangiza.

Ariko hari abarimu basanzwe bigisha na bo tugomba kuzamurira urwo rugero rw’Icyongereza. Kwigisha bisaba kuba ufite ubumenyi bw’ibyo wigisha ariko n’ururimi ubyigishamo, ubwo rero byavuga ko buri mwarimu ahubwo yari akwiye kujya kwishakira iyo gahunda ariko yayishyizeho kandi irayishyura kugira ngo ifashe abarimu kugira ngo biyongerere ubumenyi. …Iki ni ikintu bagomba gukora, ni ukuvuga muri iyo myaka ibiri, nirangira turizera ko bose bazaba bamenye Icyongereza ariko abatakimenye bashobora gutakaza akazi kabo.

Tubona abana batazi gusoma no kwandika Ikinyarwanda kandi cyigishwa mu mashuri. Bipfira he?

Nubwo Ikinyarwanda ari ururimi kavukire, na cyo tugomba kucyigisha, bakacyiga neza bakamenya. Twakoze isuzuma dusanga abanyeshuri benshi no gusoma Ikinyarwanda, bashobora kugisoma ku rugero rwa 70% bagasoma amagambo neza, bagashobora kuyatondekanya neza ariko wareba niba bumvise ibikubiye mu byo basomye ugasanga ni 44%. Si no kubivuga gusa ahubwo no kumva haracyarimo urwo rujijo.

Hari ugushyiramo imbaraga mu kwigisha abana Ikinyarwanda ariko si no muri iyo myaka ibanza gusa, no mu mashuri yisumbuye na bo biga Ikinyarwanda…

Minisitiri Nsengimana yavuze ko ubu bashyize imbaraga mu kuzamura ireme ry'uburezi mu mashuri kuva mu mashuri abanza

Imibare abanyeshuri barayitsindwa kenshi. Ni uko ikomera cyangwa yigishwa nabi?

Umuntu yavuga ko ari uburyo bwo kuyigisha no kuyiga ntabwo ari ugukomera, ibintu byose birakomera ariko hari ibyo dukoramo neza, hari n’ibyo badakoramo neza. Ndetse urebye ikigero cy’abana bakoze ibizamini bya Leta, umwaka ushize imibare bayitsinze ari 23%, uyu mwaka bageze kuri 50% ariko ntabwo ari byiza kuko kuvuga ngo 50% ntabwo batsinze imibare ntabwo ari ibintu umuntu yakwishimira.

Icyo dukora ni ukureba tukavuga tuti ni iki cyakozwe cyatumye iryo zamuka ribaho? Ni kuki ryazamutse gusa kuri 25% tukareba ni iki twakora kugira ngo dukaze uburyo babyigamo, ariko njyewe ntabwo nemera ko imibare ikomeye cyane…tugomba gukomeza tugashyiramo imbaraga kugira ngo tubinoze.

U Rwanda rwiteze iki mu isuzumabumenyi rya PISA rwitabiriye bwa mbere mu 2025?

Ni isuzuma mpuzamahanga, kandi ntabwo ribaza buri munyeshuri. Ryibanda ku bana bafite imyaka 15 bari mu mashuri yisumbuye, ritareba niba ari mu wa mbere, mu wa kabiri, mu wa gatatu, kandi ntabwo babaza abanyeshuri bose, ahubwo bafata impagararizi. Aha bafashe abantu basaga 7000 baba ari bo bakorerwa iryo suzuma.

Bareba ubumenyi bw’uwo mwana n’uburyo abishyira mu buzima busanzwe. Icyo bitwereka ni ukugira ngo turebe ko abo bana bize bakamenya ibyo bize, atari byabindi byo gushyira mu mutwe gusa ahubwo banabyumva bakumva uko babikoresha mu buzima busanzwe. Wibuke ko intego yacu ari ukubaka ubukungu bushingiye ku bumenyi icyo gihe kugira ngo tubikore neza ni uko abo bakozi baba bafite ubushishozi.

Byari ngombwa ko dutangira kujya tugira amasuzuma nk’aya mpuzamahanga. Urebye ibihugu byose byagiye byitabira mu mwaka wa mbere bikora nabi cyane. Ntabwo nkeka ko natwe tuzakora neza kubera na byabindi twabonye muri LARS kandi banabibaza mu Cyongereza. Ntabwo turamenya urwego kuko bizatangazwa ku wa kabiri, tuzamenya ibivuyemo tubyigireho….

Tuganiriye nyuma y’uko hamenyekanye ikibazo cy’abana bakopejewe ikizamini cya Leta, bagisubirishwamo. Ubundi kuki iki cyemezo cyafashwe?

Hari impamvu nk’ebyiri navuga, icya mbere ni uko twasanze aba bana barakopejwe n’abantu bakuru abo bantu bakuru bakaba ari bo banabitangiye ntabwo abana babibasabye. Ni yo mpamvu ubona abantu bakuru barimo gukurikiranwa kuko bahemukiye aba bana.

Icya kabiri ni umubare w’abana kuko ni abana benshi barenze 7000. Gufata aba bana barenze 7000 bakopejwe n’abantu bakuru bakagombye kubabera urugero, ari na bo bashinzwe kubaha ibizamini no kubirinda icyo gihe urasanga kubahana ngo basibire atari byo, ugashaka ubundi buryo bwatuma aba bana bongera kugira amahirwe ngo bakore ikizamini ariko na bo bigireho kuko n’iyo umuntu yaza akagukopeza ugomba kubyanga kandi ukabivuga kuko iyo utabivuze uba nawe ufite uruhare muri ibyo byakozwe. Rero abana bagomba kubyumva.

Ariko ubu ni ubwa mbere n’ubwa nyuma bikozwe, abana na bo bagiye gukangurirwa kugira ngo bumve iki kibazo kugira ngo kitazongera kuba. Ntabwo umuntu yakwirara avuga ngo nibyongera kuba tuzongera dukore ikindi kizamini. Oya ni ubwa mbere n’ubwa nyuma bikozwe. Ubutaha biramutse bibaye ni ugukurikiza amabwiriza uko ari ariko njyewe ndakeka ko bitazongera kuba.

Abana bose uko ari 7188 baritabiriye neza? Amanota y’abasubiyemo azasohoka ryari?

Abenshi baritabiriye barenga 99%, usanga kwitabira birenze uburyo basanzwe bitabira. Ku byerekeye amanita, ikizamini cyasozwaga gihita kijyanwa gukosorwa kugira ngo byihute. Ubwo rero turateganya ko amanota azabageraho ku wa 11 Nzeri bagashobora kwitegura bagasanga bagenzi babo kuri 14, bivuze ko bazatakaza icyumweru ariko gutakaza icyumweru biruta gutakaza umwaka.

Abazatsinda muri aba bazabasha kubona imyanya muri internat?

Abantu ntabwo babyumva neza. Hari umuntu twahuye arambaza ngo kuki abahungu bafatirwa ku manota menshi abakobwa bagafatirwa kuri make yo kujya muri internat [amashuri biga babamo]? Ntabwo ari amanota afatirwaho kugira ngo umuntu ajye muri internat. Ahubwo uko bigenda, hari imibare mike cyane, abana 7% bonyine ni bo bashobora kujya muri internat. Uhera ku wa mbere ukavuga ngo yasabye hehe? Niba ari mu ba mbere akajyayo, rero ugeze hahandi imyanya irangiriye ni ho bavuga ngo ni amanota.

Ni ho wari ugeze kuko ni imyanya si amanota. Kandi imyanya y’abahungu n’iy’abakobwa iratandukanye kuko hari amashuri y’abakobwa gusa. Ntawundi ushobora kuhajya Atari umukobwa. Iyo urebye imyanya mu mashuri biga bacumbikirwa usanga imyanya y’abakobwa ari myinshi kurusha iy’abahungu kuko hari amashuri y’abakobwa rero ugasanga uravuga ngo bafatiye bafatiye hano. Oya, ahubwo ni ho bagarukiye kuko imyanya yashize.

Abakopeje abana bari bagamije kwesa imihigo yo gutsindisha neza. Mubivugaho iki?

Bashyize imbaraga se mu kwigisha! Bashyize imbaraga mu gufasha abanyeshuri ngo bige, bashyize imbaraga mu gukangurira abana kujya muri gahunda nzahurabushobozi? Uko ni ko besa imihigo, ntabwo wesa imihigo wiba….guhagurukira kwesa imihigo ni byiza rwose ariko kuvuga ngo ngiye gukopeza abana ntabwo ari ukwesa imihigo, ahubwo ni ugukora ibidakwiye gukorwa. Baba bayibeshyeye.

Impamvu ni uwo muntu nyine ntabwo ari ibyo dusaba ahubwo ni uko muntu ku giti cye. …naho rwose ibintu byo gukopeza abana ni ukubahemukira, ni no guhemukira igihugu.

Turi mu bihe by’itangira ry’amashuri. Impinduka zakozwe mu burezi muri uyu mwaka zigamije iki?

Impinduka iza hari ikibazo ije gukemura. Nk’ubu isuzuma rya LARS twavugaga kare, kubona abana biga cyangwa basoma ntibumve neza ibyo basoma, ku gice kimwe bituma twibaza tuti mbese ni iki cyahinduka? Ku gice kimwe hari amasomo n’ibyo bigishwa ariko hari n’abarimu babigisha tugasanga ibyo dukomeza gusaba abarimu twari dukwiriye no kubongerera imbaraga cyangwa n’ubumemyi.

Ugasanga umwarimu urangije ku cyiciro cy’amashuri yisumbuye, A2 hari byinshi tumusaba na we adafite, kandi iyo ugereranyije n’ibindi bihugu ari n’ibyo duturanye usanga abarimu bacu bo mu mashuri abanza ari bo biga imyaka mike. Impinduka yagiyeho ni ukugira ngo tuzamure ubumenyi bw’abarimu bacu bo mu mashuri abanza kugira ngo bashobore kwigisha abana neza.

Ni ukugira ngo abarimu bazave ku rugero rwa secondaire bajye ku rugero rwa kaminuza ariko bigakorwa mu bice bibiri kuko tudashobora kubikorera rimwe, twabura abarimu. Icyiciro cya mbere ni ukugira ngo tuve ku mashuri yisumbuye tujye kuri diploma, imyaka ibiri ya kaminuza ni yo mpamvu baziga imyaka itanu. Icyiciro cya kabiri bazava kuri A1 bagere kuri A0.

Impinduka ya kabiri ni umunsi w’ishuri. Iyo urebye abana bagatangira ishuri mu gitondo kare bagatangira amasomo bicaye imbere ya mwarimu bakagera saa Kumi n’imwe, usanga umwana ataha ananiwe kandi ubushakashatsi bwerekana ko guhera saa Cyenda kwiga biratangira bikagabanyuka ukazagera saa Kumi n’Ebyiri nta kintu ukiga, abarimu bakananirwa n’abanyeshuri bakananirwa kandi nta musaruro bitanga. Ni cyo gituma twahinduye umunsi. Barakomeza bakiga ariko imyigire irahinduka bikaba ari ibintu ukora uri hanze wiruka uganira n’abandi atari bya bindi byo kwicara mu ishuri mwarimu ari imbere.

Urugero natanga ugiye kwiga umuco nyarwanda, urasohotse uragiye urahamirije, urabyinnye, urivuze ibi ukabishyira mu bikorwa. Urimo kwiga atari mwarimu uri imbere abikubwira mu magambo. Ari Icyongereza hari ukwigisha [amategeko y’ururimi ] ikibonezamvugo n’ibindi byose ariko mu bikorwa byunganira integanyanyigisho mukajya mu biganiro-mpaka….

Hari ibintu byinshi ibikorwa byunganira integanyanyigisho bidufashamo ariko ukabihuza n’ibyo ubushakashatsi bwerekana ko umwana yiga neza, bigatuma umwana yiga neza kandi agakunda ishuri.

Ni ibiki abanyeshuri n’abayobozi b’amashuri bakwiye kwitwararikaho muri uyu mwaka?

Ni ukubibutsa ko hari ibintu twashyizeho bijyanye n’imyitwarire kugira ngo babyumve. Ibintu byo kurwana cyangwa se hari abana bake ariko barahari bagiye bagaragara ko bazana inzoga, ibiyobyabwenge hamwe na hamwe ntabwo bizihanganirwa.

Ni ngombwa ko ababyeyi banabibasobanurira, n’abana bakabyumva n’abarimu n’abandi bakozi bo ku mashuri kugira ngo tubihagurukire kuko tudashyizeho ikinyabupfura mu mashuri ntabwo haba ahantu ho kwiga ngo abantu bamenye. Ubwo rero abantu bose babihomberamo. Ntabwo twakwemera ko abantu bake baza guhombya ishuri ryose.

Abana bite ku byo basabwa, bite ku kwiga, boye kujya mu bindi bibashuka. Ku byerekeye abarimu n’abayobozi b’amashuri bo ni ukumva ko ikigo cy’ishuri ari icyabo, bagishinzwe noneho bagakora ibishoboka byose kugira ngo ireme ry’uburezi kuri icyo kigo ritere imbere. Rwose ndabizi ko hari ibikoresho baba badafite ariko ntibibe urwitwazo. Tugomba kwishakamo ibisubizo, Atari ukuvuga ngo ntusabe ibidahari, bisabe rwose unabihagurukire ariko igihe bitaraza ukomeze kwita ku bana, ntuhweme kuvuga ngo ni iki nakora kugira ngo ireme ry’uburezi ritere imbere.