IGIHE

Umuti w’ubukene no gukemura ibibazo by’abaturage: Akari ku mutima wa Minisitiri Musabyimana

0 21-11-2022 - saa 13:15, Akayezu Jean de Dieu

Tariki 10 Ugushyingo 2022, yanditswe mu mateka ya Musabyimana Jean Claude nk’umunsi yinjiye mu bagize Guverinoma y’u Rwanda nka Minisitiri w’Ubutegetsi bw’Igihugu, asimbuye Gatabazi Jean Marie Vianney.

Musabyimana wahawe kuyobora minisiteri ifite inzego z’ibanze n’imibereho myiza y’Abanyarwanda mu nshingano, si mushya mu nshingano zihura n’umuturage mu buryo butaziguye kuko kuva mu 2014 kugeza mu 2017 yari umuyobozi mu nzego z’ibanze ndetse yaje no kuba Guverineri w’Intara y’Amajyaruguru.

Iyi minisiteri niyo ifite mu nshingano guhuza ibikorwa hafi ya byose bigamije guteza imbere ubuzima n’imibereho y’Abanyarwanda, yaba ibikorwa n’izindi minisiteri, ibigo bya leta, imiryango itari iya leta yaba mpuzamahanga ikorera mu Rwanda ndetse n’Imiryango Nyarwanda irimo n’ishingiye ku myemerere.

Ni umuhanga waminuje mu bijyanye n’ubuhinzi by’umwihariko gahunda zo kuhira, aho yanabyigishije muri kaminuza ndetse yabikozemo mu miryango itari ya leta ndetse no mu nzego za leta.

Musabyimana w’imyaka 50 y’amavuko yakoze mu myanya itandukanye irimo no kuba Umunyamabanga Uhoraho muri Minisiteri y’Ubutaka n’amashyamba aho yavuye ajya kuba Umunyamabanga Uhoraho muri Minisiteri y’Ubuhinzi n’Ubworozi, yari akiriho.

Mu kiganiro na IGIHE, Musabyimana yavuze ku ngamba azanye muri Minisiteri y’Ubutegetsi bw’Igihugu, gahunda zo kuvana abaturage mu bukene ndetse no guharanira ko umuturage aba ku isonga.

IGIHE: Icyizere n’inshingano uherutse guhabwa n’Umukuru w’Igihugu wabyakiriye ute?

Minisitiri Musabyimana: Mu by’ukuri inshingano nka ziriya, icya mbere nazakiranye ishimwe, nshimira Umukuru w’Igihugu wampaye uwo mwanya wo kugira ngo mfatanye n’abandi bagenzi banjye mu gukorera igihugu.

Icya kabiri, umuntu abyakirana ibyishimo ariko ukanibaza ibibazo byinshi, ugatangira kwibaza uti, uwanshyizeho, yanshyizeho anyizeye, ni gute ntazamutenguha?

Ubwo rero rimwe na rimwe hari igihe hazamo n’akoba gake ariko nyuma ukagenda ushyira ubwenge ku gihe ukavuga uti ni ibintu byiza, ni inshingano, ubundi ugakomeza ukazishyira mu bikorwa.

Ntabwo uri mushya mu nzego z’ibanze, ni gute uzahuza ubunararibonye ufite mu kuzuza inshingano zawe?

Buriya akazi kose umuntu akora hari ibintu bimufasha, icya mbere ni ubumenyi uba ufite [...] buriya iyo urimo kwiga bya bintu ugenda unyuramo, baguha imikoro ukayikora, bya bintu ugenda unyuramo ukabikemura, inshingano ugenda ufata n’ibindi burya akenshi ni bimwe mu bigutegurira kuba umuyobozi.

Ikindi kigufasha ni uburere ufite mu muryango, inshuti, abo mu bana, abavandimwe […] bituma umenya uburyo umuntu abaho n’uko yitwara muri sosiyete.

Ikindi gikomeye ni uburambe, buriya mu nshingano zikomeye nk’izingizi, murabizi ko nta hantu umuntu yigira kuba minisitiri. Nta hantu babyigira, ni ukuvuga ngo ibyo bintu byose wagiye unyuramo, ibyo ubona, ibyo wigira ku bandi, ibyo usoma byose urabihuza bituma ushobora kuzuza inshingano.

Nkaba ntekereza ko kimwe mu bizamfasha, umutungo ukomeye ni ubwo burambe, yaba mu nzego z’ibanze ariko ntabwo ariho gusa kuko ni byo mu nzego z’ibanze nagiye ngiramo inshingano ariko zitari ku rwego nk’uru rwa minisitiri.

Ariko uretse n’ibyo no kuba Umunyamabanga Uhoraho wa Minisiteri [Minisiteri y’Ubuhinzi n’Ubworozi] ukamara imyaka irenga itanu buriya ni ikintu gikomeye kigufasha kumenya uko gahunda zikomeye z’igihugu zishyirwa mu bikorwa, ukamenya uburyo politiki y’igihugu ihuzwa n’imikorere ya buri munsi kugira ngo bijyanye.

Kuko burya iyo uri Umunyamabanga Uhoraho muri minisiteri uba uri hagati nk’izingiro rya politiki na tekinike. Ugahuza politiki z’igihugu, ibyerekezo bigari igihugu gifite ukabihuza n’ibintu cyangwa abantu banyuranye kugira ngo byose bikore.

Ni uburambe bukomeye ku buryo ntekereza ko iyo ufashe ubwo burambe wagize mu kazi gasanzwe ukabuhuza n’inshingano wagiye ugira zisanzwe, ukegera abaturage, ukamenya ibibazo byabo, ntekereza ko ni igikoresho gikomeye uhuza ukabasha kuzuza inshingano uhawe.

Uretse ko no kuba narabaye muri Minisiteri y’Ubuhinzi n’Ubworozi n’iy’Amashyamba, ibyo byose ni ugukorana n’abaturage ku buryo ntekereza ko nimbikoresha neza bizamfasha muri izi nshingano nshya mfite.

Ni izihe ngamba nshya uzanye muri iyi minisiteri uje kuyobora?

Icya mbere intero irahari kandi ntabwo nje kuyihindura, umurongo dukoreramo urahari urazwi, dufite gahunda ya Guverinoma y’Imyaka irindwi [NST1], tuzi ibyo iteganya, birazwi turabizi twese.

Dufite icyerekezo cy’igihugu cyacu 2050, aho tugomba kugira umuturage ushoboye, ufite imibereho myiza, igihugu gifite ubukungu buteye imbere. Ibyo rero ni ibintu bizwi tugomba kujyamo.

Icyo ukora ni ukuyobora bagenzi bawe kugira ngo politiki ziri muri minisiteri ku buryo zishyirwa mu bikorwa kugira ngo ibyo byerekezo igihugu gifite zigerweho.

Ni uguhora ukurikirana niba koko umuturage w’u Rwanda nk’uko Abanyarwanda babyifuje azagera muri 2050, ameze nk’uko icyerekezo cy’igihugu kibigena.

Aha rero dufite politiki yo kwegereza abaturage ubushobozi […] navuga ko ku bwanjye umuhanda uraharuye igisigaye ni ukuwugendamo.

Minisitiri Musabyimana avuga ko gukemura ibibazo by'abaturage ari kimwe mu byo ashyize imbere

Inama y’Abaminisitiri iherutse kwemeza gahunda y’imiterere y’inzego z’ibanze. Ni ibiki biri muri iyo gahunda?

Inzego zirubatse kuva ku Mudugudu ukazamuka kugeza ku rwego rw’igihugu ndetse n’abazikoramo barahari bafite ubushobozi bwo kuba bahindura iki gihugu. Ndetse n’ababafasha barahari, dufite imiryango itari iya leta, dufite amadini n’amatorero n’abikorera.

Ni ukuvuga ngo mu Rwanda navuga ko ibintu byose bikenewe kugira ngo izo mpinduka zifuzwa zikorwe, byose birahari. Igisigaye ni ugukomeza kugira ngo biganishe kuri ya ntego kandi ubwo nicyo nanjye nshinzwe ahangaha.

Noneho tugiye ku nzego zegereye abaturage, zirahari hari n’inshingano bafite. Urwego rw’Umudugudu ni urwego rushinzwe ubukangurambaga kugira ngo uruhare rw’abaturage bose mu bibakorerwa rugaragare, bumve inshingano zabo ku gihugu ko bagomba kugikorera no kugiteza imbere.

Noneho ukazamuka ukagera ku kagari, ni urwego rutanga serivisi z’ibanze ariko bakanakurikirana uko bwa bukangurambaga bukorwa, noneho bikazamuka bikagera ku murenge naho bagatanga serivisi nyinshi, ku buryo bigera ku karere ubundi bari ku rwego rwo gukora igenamigambi ry’imishinga yose y’iterambere.

Ni ukuvuga ngo rero imyubakire y’iyo nzego, ikoze ku buryo zuzuzanya kandi abazikoramo bahabwa ubushobozi kugira ngo bakore. Icyo ntekereza kigomba gukomeza gushyirwamo imbaraga ni ugukomeza guha ubushobozi izo nzego bwo kuzuza inshingano zabo.

Bakwiriye gukomeza gufashwa kumva neza inshingano bafite. Ufite inshingano yo gutanga serivisi akamenya ko agomba kuzikora kandi akazikora neza kandi akaba yabazwa inshingano.

Izo nzego kandi zigomba gukomeza guhabwa ibyangombwa bikenewe, aho gukorera n’ibikoresho bikenewe bituma babasha gukora mu buryo bworoshye […] bagahugurwa kugira ngo bagire ubumenyi bukenewe kugira ngo bakore akazi kabo neza.

Hari gahunda yari ihari yo kongera abakozi bo ku rwego rw’Akagari, yaba igeze he?

Hari ibyo nasanze byaratangiye kuganirwa byo kongerera ubushobozi urwego rw’akagari, urabizi ko ari rwo rwego rwa mbere rw’ubuyobozi ruriho […] niho dufite abakozi ba mbere ba leta bahembwa, bahura cyane n’abaturage.

Urwego rw’Akagari rero turamutse dukomeje kurushyiramo imbaraga, tukarugira umwihariko ni ibya ngombwa kugira ngo dushobore gukomeza gufasha abaturage.

Abarukorera tukabongerera ubushobozi bwo gutanga serivisi, izo batanga zikabasha kwiyongera, ariko nabo ubwabo tukabongerera ubushobozi ndetse n’ibikoresho n’aho bakorera n’ibyangombwa byose bakeneye kugira ngo serivisi nazo ziyongere.

Ni ibintu byari byaratangiye kuganirwaho biri mu nzira ntekereza ko nanjye kimwe mu by’ibanze, tuzafatanya n’abandi kwitaho ni ukugira ngo turebe ko urwo rwego rwakomeza kongererwa ubushobozi.

Ikindi ariko ntakwibagirwa, nk’uko mubizi, inzego zegereye abaturage zitanga serivisi nyinshi [...] iyo uri muri minisiteri y’ubuhinzi akazi kawe uba uvuga uti reka ndebe ko abaturage bafite ibyo kurya bihagije, bahinze bejeje.

Ariko muri Minaloc ntabwo ariko bimeze. Duhuza ishyirwa mu bikorwa rya gahunda hafi ya zose z’inzego za leta. Ibyo rero urumva ko ari inshingano iremereye iba isaba nanone ngo umuntu ushinzwe kuyobora iyi minisiteri akore uko ashoboye n’abo bafatanya kugira ngo duhuze neza ibikorwa by’abo bandi bafite ibyo bakorera abaturage.

Kuko buriya mu buryo bwo kuvuga ngo tugire umuturage ufite imibereho myiza, umuturage ubayeho neza, bikorwa ku bufatanye bw’inzego nyinshi, izo zose bidusaba ko dukorana nazo, umuntu wese aho ari akumva icyo asabwa ndetse n’uruhare rwa wa muturage kugira ngo tumuzamure rukagaragara.

Ubona urwego rw’akagari rukwiriye kugira abakozi bangahe?

Ntabwo twari twafata umwanzuro ariko ndabivuga nk’umuntu uje muri uru rwego. Buriya inshingano akenshi zijyana n’ibyo umuntu aba asabwa ndetse n’umubare w’abakozi ujyana n’akazi kaba gahari uko kangana.

Kwegereza abaturage ubuyobozi bitangira, birashoboka ko byajyanaga wenda n’uko Akagari kangana, kari gato ku buryo abantu babiri buzuzanya n’abandi bari hejuru yabo bashobora kugacunga.

Ariko kubera ko byagaragaye ko hari ibishobora kuvugururwa ntekereza ko abantu bashobora gukomeza kubikoraho ntabwo ndababwira ngo ni ryari ariko ntekereza ko ibibazo byose byagiye bigaragaramo hari raporo dufite aha ngaha zigaragaza ibigomba kuvugururwamo kugira ngo twihutishe iterambere.

Kandi buriya wenda ibyo abantu bagomba kumva neza ni uko buriya nta rwego utajyamo ngo bakubwire ko bafite icyo kibazo (cy’abakozi bake) ariko ntibituma abantu badakora.

Kubera ko umuntu ahora ashaka kongera umusaruro w’ibyo akora, ibyo abaturage bakenera bigenda byiyongera, niyo mpamvu ugiye no mu nzego za leta zindi bagenda bakora amavugurura.

Uhuza gute inshingano za Meya, usabwa raporo na za minisiteri n’ibigo byose n’umusaruro ashobora gutanga?

Icya mbere tugomba kumva n’abantu bagomba kumenya ntabwo ibintu byose bibazwa Meya, bibazwa akarere.

Akarere ntabwo ari meya. Aragahagarariye nibyo ariko gafite inzego zikayobora, hari Inama Njyanama, Komite Nyobozi , Urwego rw’Umunyamabanga Nshingwabikorwa ndetse hari na Komite y’Umutekano.

Urumva ko akarere uburyo kubatse kagomba gutanga ibyo byose twavuze, ndetse n’ibitari ibyo. Niko ntekereza, icyo cya mbere rero ni ukumva inshingano, Meya ntiyumve ko [...] Ntabwo waba kanyamashyamba, ube Engineer, ube ushinzwe imibereho myiza, ibyo ntabwo bishoboka. Uhabwa inshingano zo kuyobora ishyirwa mu bikorwa rya gahunda zose.

Uhabwa ubushobozi, abakozi, ingengo y’imari, ugahabwa ndetse n’ijambo niko navuga. Kuko ijambo ni ikintu gikomeye cyane, guhabwa ijambo ni ukuvuga bakakumva, baragutoye, bagomba kuba biteguye ko nubabwira bazakumva.

Ibyo rero nibyo bikoresho ubundi ukoresha kugira ngo ibintu byose usabwa gukora ubigereho kandi wemye. Icyo usabwa ni iki? Ni uko ubyumva, icya kabiri ukamenya akarere uyobora, ukamenya abaturage uhagarariye.

Ibyo rero iyo ubyumvise [...] Ibyo byose byo kuvuga ngo minisiteri niyo zakwikuba kabiri, akazi kose uragakora neza nta kibazo, icya ngombwa ni uko ubushobozi uba wabuhawe.

Uyu munsi turacyabona abaturage bafite ibibazo bamaranye imyaka n’imyaka byarananiranye gukemurwa, ubifitiye izihe ngamba?

Ikintu cya mbere navuga ni uko ibyo bintu ntabwo bikwiriye. Ntabwo bikwiriye ko umuturage agira ikibazo kidakemuka kuko nta kibazo kidakemuka iyo abantu bashatse kugikemura.

Kugira ngo ibyo bintu bicike, ubundi ibibazo byo bihoraho ariko ikintu kitagombye guhoraho ni ukugira ibibazo bitarangira. Ugasanga ikibazo kiri aho, icya mbere cyo ntikizwi, ugasanga kizwi gusa n’ugifite. Icyo kiba ari ikibazo ubwacyo.

Icya kabiri, ikibazo kirahari, umuturage yagize ikibazo, uwo yakibwiye arakiryamana ntiyagikemura we ubwe, ariko uretse n’ibyo ntiyashaka n’uburyo cyakemuka wenda agihe ugomba kugikemura cyangwa se agihe umurongo.

Cyangwa se ntabwo ngikemura njyewe ariko hari undi muntu ugomba kugikemura utari njyewe, ubwo nagifashe ntabwo ngomba kugisubiza wa muntu ahubwo ngomba kugishyikiriza ugikemura.

Izo nzira nizo nzira nzi ibibazo bikemukamo. Ikibazo rero kivuka ryari? Iyo tudakurikiye, ibibazo bikaza byatugeraho ntidusubize, ntitubikemure, ntidushake undi wabikemura tubihe umurongo [...]. Akenshi ibibazo biza ubona bitonze umurongo biterwa n’icyo ngicyo.

Akazi kacu ka mbere ni ugukemura ibibazo abaturage bafite. Iyo ni inshingano ya mbere ntekereza ko arinjye, ari abo dukorana, ari abantu bose tugomba gukomeza gufata nk’akazi kacu ka mbere dushinzwe mbere yo gukora ibindi.

Ni ukuvuga ko intego ufite ari uko ibibazo by’abaturage birandurwa burundu?

Ntekereza ko nanjye ni kimwe mu nshingano mfite hano ni uko gushyira umuturage ku isonga inzira ya mbere binyuramo ni ugukemura ibibazo abaturage bafite.

Niyo mpamvu ntekereza ko kimwe na bagenzi banjye tuzakomeza gufatanya gushyira imbaraga mu gukemura ibibazo abaturage bafite ku buryo ibibazo bihari tumenya ko bikemutse, ibidakemutse uyu munsi tukamenya ngo umunsi uyu n’uyu bizaba byakemutse.

Tugashyiramo imbaraga zo kubimenya ngo ibyo bibazo ni ibihe, tukabikemura cyangwa tukabiha umurongo cyangwa igihe bizakemurirwa. Nibwo buryo ntekereza busobanutse n’abandi bantu dukorana nibyo mbasaba.

Abayobozi b’Intara, Akarere, Umurenge [...] Ibibazo bakugezaho ubikemure, niba uyohora ishyirahamwe runaka, ibibazo Abanyamuryango bakugezaho bikemure, niba uri umuyobozi wa koperative, ibibazo bakugezaho bikemure kuko iyo mutabikemuye nibyo bya bibazo usanga byarabaye agatereranzamba bimaze imyaka n’imyaka.

Rwose ikintu cyo kuvuga ngo dufite umuturage ufite ikibazo kimaze imyaka n’imyaka atanazi n’impamvu kidakemuka ngo babe barabimubwiye, ibyo bintu biveho.

Hari gahunda iherutse kwemezwa na guverinoma yo kuvana abaturage mu bukene, yaba iteye ite?

Ubundi umuti w’ubukene urazwi […] hari umuririmbyi waririmbye indirimbo yitwa ‘Umurunga w’Iminsi’, yaravuze ngo umurunga w’iminsi ni umurimo.

Umuti w’ubukene rero ni ugukora cyane, abantu bagakunda umurimo bagakura amaboko mu mifuka, uwo niwo muti w’ubukene. Ibindi bisigaye byose bikajya kuzuriza no kugira ngo iyo mirimo igende neza.

Tubonere abantu ibyo bakora, kandi umurimo ntabwo ari ubuhinzi gusa, imirimo ni ugukura amaboko mu mufuka tukamenya ko ubumenyi bwose umuntu afite agomba kubushora mu murimo.

Noneho hari abantu bo ubwabo batagize amahirwe yo kuba bagira ubwo bushobozi, noneho abo ngabo tukabitaho […] tujye mu murongo wo kuvuga ngo dushake umurimo, ubukene mu Banyarwanda buzashira.

N’iyo politiki rero yo kuvana abaturage mu bukene ni aho ishingiye. Murabizi ko twavuguruye ibyiciro by’ubudehe kugira ngo tumenye ese Abanyarwanda babayeho bate? abafite ubushobozi bangana gute? abafite ubushobozi buke, abakene n’abandi bose ngo babayeho bate?

Ibyo ni ukugira ngo tumenye ba bandi bakeneye gufashwa cyane haba mu kubahangira imirimo cyangwa n’abadashobora gukora iyo mirimo.

Twumvikane ngo buri wese ni iki akeneye ngo aho kuba isoko y’ubukene abe yabyara ubukire?

Ikigamijwe ni ukugira ngo n’uri mu cyiciro cy’abatishoboye nawe gihinduke ubundi tujyane muri cya cyerekezo 2050 kuko dushaka kujyanayo twese.

Dusoza, ni ubuhe butumwa ufitiye Abanyarwanda?

Ubutumwa naha Abanyarwanda bose, ni uko icya mbere dufite igihugu cyiza gikunda abaturage bacyo. Cyifuza ko nta Munyarwanda wabaho nabi.

Ibi buri wese abifiteho inshingano, kuko buriya urebye umuntu wese mukuru […] aba umuyobozi ku rwego uru n’uru. Kuko hari igihe tubivuga abantu bagatangira ngo ni inshingano za ba meya […].

Twese ni inshingano zacu kugira ngo umuturage w’u Rwanda abeho neza.

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